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Chain Vs Shaft Drive
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whats you opion about this. Is shaft drive better than chain?
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Neither. Belt is better.
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I recently installed a belt conversion to a chain drive Vulcan 800. There
has
been considerable improvement in the performance of that motorcycle.. Gas
mileage is noticeably better.. Vibration in the chain/sprocket drive has
been
eliminated .. Chain/sprocket noise is gone and the only sounds from the
drive
train is a very subdued squeak at idling speeds..
I've been riding this motorcycle for ten years and historically, it has
always
felt as though it needed another gear at top end highway speeds.. That
sensation
is gone and the engine doesn't sound like it is working as hard as before..
Of course, the inconvenience of a perpetual cleaning excess chain lube from
the rear wheel area has been eliminated, also..
The top end speed has increased somewhat, and the downside is, there is an
insignificant loss at the low end..
The cost of the conversion is pricey and many riders would not be able to
justify the costs.. Those would be the folks who enjoy the upgrades of a new
motorcycle every year or two.
After several thousand miles of riding this motorcycle with the belt driven
conversion, I can't say enough good things about it.. Overall improvement in
the performance is excellent..
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
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Wife has a belt driven BMW. But I don't know if it can wheelie.
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Well they don't put chains on cars any more to drive the rear wheel. Why
should they still do it on bikes? Some bikes are so cheap they went to
belt drive. I know CVT's are belt drive for cars but it's still a cheap
way to do it.
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Not a good analogy. Those cars that had chains? They *also* had a
shaft. The shaft spun a fixed differential that spun chains that drove
suspended hubs. "Kinda rube goldberg." They simply simplified by
suspending the engire diff.
Belts (and chains) are most logical for an engine that's already
spinning in a transverse direction (IOW, engine spins same direction as
the wheels).
How much sense does it make to have a an engine that spins one way,
then transfer all that rotational energy to a completly different
rotational plane only to transfer it *back* to it's *original* plane?
Lots of wasted engergy. Cheap? That's okay. You keep thinking that. :-)
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Shaft has its place. True, there is some frictional loss
through additional gears and velocity joints. This is why
shaft is usually only provided on larger engine bikes.
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Yeah, like Honda Revere, the European version of the Hawk.
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That is a sweet bike. OTOH although perfectly adequate, the
size matters crowd thinks that a 600 cc sportbike is a My
Little Pony [TM].
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Shaft has an advantage in that stones that might damage or
break a belt can't do as much harm.
I like belts because they are low maintenance. Chain is a
PITA.
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The bikes designed for high mileage and longer lifecycle also tend to have
shafts and cost a bit more for that reason. Those going for maximum thrust
or lowest cost us chains. Belt is a good compromise. I have all three.
Like is too short to be cleaning chains.
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WRT belt: I'll go ahead and call it "simple, effective, efficient, and
less required maintenance than a shaft." For a street ridden bike
who's engine spins transversely it makes the most sense.
WRT chain: For racing, it makes the most sense. Every track requires a
different final drive ratio. For quick ratio changes, sprockets and
chains make the most sense.
For a street ridden bike who's engine spins longitudinally? Yeah. Shaft
makes most sense.
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Why not flex cable. That will go in and around things and run at a 45
degree angle.
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Not good for transmitting much power for very long. There's a lot of
friction and he continual flexing will sooner rather than later wear it
out.
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Supposedly shaft drives have lower maintenance and are cleaner but I
think you'll find that 98% of riders don't ride enough to make any
difference. If you use lithium grease and clean up after yourself,
chains are not sloppy as some will say and on a properly set up bike
with a good quality chain and sprockets, plus minimal maintenance they
typically go 20,000 miles or better without needing to be replaced.
Sport bikes generally use chains only because:
1) HP loss is less than shafts. And toothed belts can't handle 160
RWHP yet.
2) No shaft jacking at all (pinion gear climbing up the ring gear
upsetting handling) But these days of BMW Paralever and others make
jacking is minimal anyway.
3) Added cost & complexity of changing power train motion too much.
There's a third option used on HD motorcycles and now smaller BMWs or
the toothed rubber/or alloy belt drive that can be said to be the best
of both worlds but they can't handle the high HP of most liter sport
bikes.
My question is what ever happened to sealed chain drives, like the old
Hondas? No muss or fuss but added cost/ and harder maintenance were
probably the biggest factor.
Bob Nixon, Chandler AZ
01 Sprint ST "RED" 55K miles
http://bigrex.net/pictures
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Shafties can't wheelie
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ROTFLMAO...that was good.
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Or countersteer.
I have to jump on my 80 Honda to wheelie or countersteer... The
Concours just won't do it....
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I hope you're kidding about not being able to counter-steer. Why
wouldn't you be able to with a shaft drive? I have a Virago with a
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In order to counter-steer a shaft-driven bike, you will first have to strip the factory paint and
refinish the bike with Formica.
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Or granite slab, for a real high-end look.
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And it HAS to be green. No other color will work.
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shaft drive and I always counter-steer.
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They both have their merits and that's why both are used. If you want to go
a lot of miles without drive maintenance then a shaft drive comes out
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Pardon my ignorance about the technical niceties of bikes (although
I've ridden a lot of 100 cc ones back home in India) - but what exactly
constitutes drive maintenance? Whenever my chain got elongated, they
cut a link and shortened. In the rare case of a sprocket wearing off, a
new set of sprockets but that's about it. These things don't happen
catastrophically either.
Seems like an awful lot of tradeoff, if indeed efficiency and
performance are compromised, for a design decision to put in a shaft
drive! And since a solidly engineered company like BMW always puts in
shafts, there must be more to that, surely?
And what's the reason for not being able to do wheelies in shaft-driven
bikes?
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ahead. If you prize efficiency and performance then a chain drive comes out
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Drive maintenance with a chain is frequent cleaning, lubrication and
adjustment. With a shaft drive it's changing the final drive oil and
lubing the slip yoke every couple of years give or take. And that's on a
touring bike that sees a lot of miles.
If a chain is a link too long due to wear it needs to be replaced.
Most of North America does not ride 100cc bikes. Those 100cc bikes your
rode won't even do the speed limit on most highways. Chains and
sprockets wear out faster on higher power bikes. We also maintain
machinery to a higher standard than in India.
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Just got myself a license to drive here in Dubai (UAE) the other day
and want to buy myself something. Never having ridden any other than
the measly 100 cc ones, I think I'll go for a used 400 cc (should get a
Kawasaki or some such for about USD 900) just to get a hang of how big
bikes feel like and later probably think of a BMW.
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Well, most folks won't consider 400cc anywhere near a big bike feel,
especially in performance. But it may be all you need in Dubai, what are
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Then "most" people won't ever have ridden a Kwak 400 will they?
But it may be all you need in Dubai, what are
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the road/speed limits there? Do they saw your hand off for using too much
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The commonest speed limit is 50 mph. The max. anywhere within the UAE
(on some freeways) is 87 mph with quite a few roads allowing 62 mph.
But no roads at all where there isn't any speed limit.
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Dubai is an incredibly open, civil pocket within the Gulf. Most western
friends of mine have mentioned that often enough. Saudi Arabia it is
that gives this place the bad press :)
I've had the same BMW for 28 years and the old airheads may be
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throttle? I've had the same BMW for 28 years and the old airheads may be
just the ticket for that area, light weight, easy maintenance, not much to
go wrong if you find a good used one.
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The only roadsters that are available here are the R850R and R1150R. A
new one would cost as much as gold and the real sad part is that unlike
Jap ones, used Beemers are very elusive :(
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This back of beyond "Dubai" you're thinking of...is it somewhere other than
the oil filthy rich Dubia of the United Arab Emirates where you can buy just
about ANYTHING? Chances are they won't have a 28 year old air head though,
they'd have binned it 27 years ago and bought something a lot newer.
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As far as maintenance of the drive, you need to periodically pull the tranny
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Bill,
Did the final drive ratio stay the same? I have to assume that it
changed if highway cruising is that much more relaxed. Ok, found the
instructions for the kit. Final drive goes from 2.875:1 down to 2.22:1.
That's a big 23% reduction in engine speed.
Belts do have significant advantages, but space efficiency (it's a big
deal on a sport bike) is not one of them. Does your Vulcan have a
cushion drive rear hub like my very high tech 1980 CB650? It makes a
difference. Then again I don't ride a big V-twin either.
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back and lube the input spline. So instead of a lot of quick maintenance
you get to do one big one once a year. In an arid place like UAE you may
easily get two years between lubing.
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Not that you'd need to, what with them having these things called "garages"
over there.
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Their newer ones are better all around but I'm not familiar with their shaft
maintenance. I don't know what the dealer situation is there but it should
be a consideration for going more high tech.
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It's not like shaft drives take a huge amount of power to run, but a
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They own the worlds oil, so have a guess what the dealer network is like.
For ANYTHING.
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chain takes less and is less expensive. The torque reaction of a shaft
drive affects handling too. This is why BMW has come up with their
Paralever system. Also, BMW does have chain drive bikes, but that's a
relatively recent thing.
You can wheelie a shaft driven bike. You're just not getting the joke. A
great deal of shaft drive bikes wouldn't wheelie if they were chain
drive. It's a weight issue not a drive issue.
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Very new to this group actually, thus was late on the joke. After I
posted, I did a sift of some of the threads on the archives and
realized that I posted a tad too early :)
Thanks for your time Joshua.
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Yes.. the final drive ratio did change .. I'd experimented with changing
both
front and rear sprockets, before. Wasn't satisfied with the results.. It
was
still chain and sprockets, with the accompanying vibration and noise.. Of
course the cleaning and lubrication issue was still there, also..
The space efficiency didn't change all that much.. After installation of the
conversion kit.. there seems to be more space at the hub and the chrome
chain guard was re-installed with room to spare.. I'm not sure about the
cushion drive at the rear hub on this Vulcan.. It is a '96 model..
There might be an availability issue with your motorcycle, might want to
check that out before you get too involved.. If you are seriously
considering
making the conversion, I hope you have as much luck with yours as I've had
with my own..
Bill Walker
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Bill,
I'm staying with chain drive. My Honda has a cushion drive rear hub and
don't have a big lumpy twin so I don't see the need to go with a belt.
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AFAIK, when I last took off the back wheel apart, Savage with
belt drive has a cushioned rear hub. I think that is because it
is single cylinder and to cushion the thump at lower engine
speeds.
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My shaft drive 400 does wheelies. Not intentionally. I've managed to lift
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Do you live south of the equator? If so, you may have inadvertently
received a *northern* hemisphere bike, which when placed south of the
equator can do unsafe things such as wheelies and counter-steering. It
all has to do with the Coriolis effect.
If it is still under warranty, the dealer should be able to replace it
with a shaft drive that spins in the correct direction, to counter this
effect.
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the front wheel off the pavement quite a ways during hard acceleration
though, without TRYING to do a wheelie. It's actually not a good feeling,
so something I wouldn't try to do, but I've managed to always keep the
rubber side down, so far. -Dave
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ahead.
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I would suppose cost is in there too....must be able to keep production
costs (hence price) down with chain.......People like what they have usually
.Let me add it took me 15 minutes and probably 20 cents in oil and kerosene
to maintain my chain this year... not exactly heavy lifting.
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Yep, cost is something I neglected to mention. Chains are cheaper.
Especially small non-o-ring chains.
How many miles did you ride to only need to service your chain once? My
brother rode his K75 as his only means of transport for two years and
didn't require any drive maintenance. I would guess he put at least 15k
miles on it in that time frame.
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I've filled up my Snottoiler a few times in 12,000 miles. Chain and
sprockets are still well within tolerances. I estimate the time to be less
than 5 minutes in total.
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Chain is cheaper, lighter and more efficient. Shaft is less
maintenance and less noise.
Someone is going to tell you that shafties can't countersteer or
wheelie. That's some sort of "standing joke" which many people still
think is funny.
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Another guttersnipe one who does not understand or honor the traditions of
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My 1971 Honda CB100 used an anti-wheelie device. It always
worked, as I never had a wheelie.
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Didn't you check the gas and fill with oil?
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Reeky
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Well, actually, it's falling-down funny. }: )
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